2/18/2005

A good news day
Filed under: General — nobrainer @ 1:13 pm

I don’t know how I missed this earlier. I love news like this. From Brit Hume’s Grapevine:

Thirty-five Greenpeace (search) protesters got more than they may have bargained for when they stormed the International Petroleum Exchange in London on Wednesday. According to “The Times” of London, they slipped into a closing door and then roared onto the trading floor, blowing whistles and sounding foghorns.

They were hoping to paralyze oil trading at the exchange. But the traders, most of them under 25 years old, rushed the protesters, pushing filing cabinets on top of them and kicking and punching them until they retreated. Twenty-seven protesters were arrested. Two were hospitalized, one with a broken jaw and the other with a concussion. One protester says, “I have never seen anyone less amenable to listening our point of view.”

Boy, that really makes me laugh.

But that’s not the only thing I got a kick out of from Fox News. I haven’t said much about the Junk Science opinion pieces lately. I was expecting a Kyoto related entry, and I was not disappointed.

On a more serious note, we also installed two counters at JunkScience.com to estimate the costs and benefits of the Kyoto Protocol.

Similar to the famed National Debt Clock (search) near Times Square in New York City, one counter racks up the immense compliance costs of the Kyoto Protocol, conservatively estimated for the counter’s purpose at $150 billion per year.

If the astronomical compliance costs don’t impress you, we’ve got another counter — one that shows an estimated running total of the potential “warming” avoided by the treaty’s restrictions on greenhouse gas emissions.

Both global warming skeptics and advocates agree that the potential amount of warming that hypothetically might be avoided through Kyoto Protocol implementation is roughly 0.07 degrees centigrade by the year 2050.

So to be able to show any activity on the clock, we had to go out nine places to the right of the decimal point — that would be potential temperature changes on the order of a billionth of one degree Centigrade.

Combined, the two counters indicate that the Kyoto Protocol costs roughly $100,000 to “prevent” just one-billionth of a degree of warming. So at the bargain price of just $100 trillion, the average global temperature could theoretically be lowered by 1 degree Centigrade.

Well that was entertaining enough. I think I’ll go out my way to pick up a copy of today’s campus newspaper. Surely there must be some reaction to the Kyoto thing. How many op-eds will state something like “if it costs every penny have, we must save the environment”? Actually, if that appears in the paper in any serious manner, look for me on the news tonight. I will snap.

Hold on, I’m not done bad-mouthing my employer yet.

Fortunately, the good news keeps going. Apparently there’s some graph of global temperatures over the last 1000 years. Because it stays pretty flat then spikes at the end, it’s known as the hockey stick. Not surprisingly, it’s often used as evidence of global warming.

It’s also not surprising then, that people in the general public want to examine the widely cited work.

Stephen McIntyre, a Canadian minerals consultant who has spent a great deal of time and (his own) money studying the graph says that, for one thing, the mathematical technique used to draw the graph is prone to generating hockey stick-like graphs even when applied to random data. So the hockey stick graph data proves nothing according to McIntyre.

McIntyre would like to do more research on the hockey stick, but the graph’s author, Michael Mann of the University of Virginia, is blocking that effort.

This guy, or Mann I should say, is nearly my colleague. I actually hope I run into this guy so I can get his word on the situation.

McIntyre requested the raw data Mann used to construct the hockey stick. But after initially providing some information, Mann refused further cooperation, claiming he doesn’t have time to respond to “every frivolous note” from nonscientists, according to the Journal.

While McIntyre thinks there are more errors in the method used to develop the hockey stick, Mann refuses to release the requested computer code claiming that, “Giving them the algorithm would be giving in to the intimidation tactics that these people are engaged in,” reported the Journal.

But asking for a scientist’s data and methods for purposes of evaluating scientific conclusions is part-and-parcel of the time-honored traditions known as the scientific method and peer review — it’s hardly “intimidation.”

Moreover, Mann’s research was funded by U.S. taxpayers through the National Science Foundation and the Department of Commerce’s National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration.

It’s simply unfathomable that Mann thinks he can secrete his publicly-financed data and methodology from independent review by interested members of the public — particularly when he and other global warming promoters are trying to use his results to change public policy.

Maybe we should add a third counter — one representing the number of days Mann hides his dubious data from the public that paid for it.

It’s quite well summed up in the opinion piece. If Mann was working for a private company, I would in no way expect him to release his algorithm. I would also not expect the work to be taken as seriously.

However, the point of being a publicly funded researcher is to provide knowledge for the public. Any published result should be published in a way that will allow for the reproducability of results. That’s how crackpots are removed from the field of science.

I wonder if UVA will put any pressure on him to fully disclose his work.

This post has gotten way to long. I’ve already lost interest in it. Oh well, I killed a lot of time.

UC still sucks.

Update: After rereading the post, I looked at Mann’s words [emphasis mine]: “giving in to the intimidation tactics that these people are engaged in”. Let’s see, he’s produced evidence loved by liberal politicians for supporting global warming. He won’t accept challenges to his work. A potential bias? What does fundrace say about this?
Michael Mann
Professor
University Of Virginia
John Kerry $650

collapse Wha Says:

That one degree centirgrad is actually pretty significant. Of course the effects of one meteor hitting in the gulf of Mexico was too, not to mention the natural cycles of the earth temperature creating ice ages and immense global flooding and the fact that god knows what the sun will do or spitout at us in the next few centuries. What thehell, let’s spend the cash anyway. The world can be our Bastard child welfare baby. Let’s all go hug a tree and hope we don’t crush its roots in the process.

USC sucks worse (I like this new theme)

 
collapse Evan Says:

What the whole billionth of a degree thing doesn’t take into account is that IF the earth does go up by 1 degree (let’s assume), that translates into well over a trillion in damages to coastal property and erratic unstable climate changes.

If all of the sudden the “bread basket” dries up and New Hampshire becomes the new agricultural center of America we’re all going to be pretty pissed about bread costing $5/loaf. Similarly, when your $600,000 vacation home in Charleston is a houseboat you’re going to think a trillion dollars was worth it.

The only people who’ll make money off of ignoring the global warming phenom. are insurance companies and oil companies.

Now, I’m not some sort of Kyoto Nazi, but I think framing that whole idea as some sort of left-wing propaganda liberal sissy bullshit is a mistake. To me, calling global warming “just a trend” is like calling evolution “just a theory.”

 
collapse Wha Says:

Evan has a good point but it is a trend and takes many hundreds of years to happen. By the time your house is a boat, your great grandchildren will have 40 year old great grandchildren dying from some mutated super AIDS that evolution created faster than the environment could ever dream of killing us.

 
collapse nobrainer Says:

By their math, based on Kyoto methods, stopping a 1 degree change would cost $100 trillion.

In my opinion, if it only costs us $1 trillion to deal with all the damage of a one degree change that will cost $100 trillion to prevent, I’ll saddle my kids the damage.

 
collapse Wha Says:

Also, if we lower the temp a degree with this instead of jsut preventing it from increasing, would it indicate that a lot more beach would become available as the ice caps would grow, allowing folks to sneak in between the water and the current beach houses, building up the extra land and making your expensive as beach house, no long beach front and worth less because supply has also increased?

 
collapse Evan Says:

From a conservative P.O.V. change is bad. So any global temperature change is going to have a negative impact somewhere. It just seems completely shortsighted and defeatist to take the position that we Americans are doomed. Doomed if we do abide by the Kyoto protocol and doomed to a flooded disasterous gulash if we don’t. So……. Let’s start drilling for oil in Alaska! I’m not so much mad that drilling in Alaska is an environmental faux-pas as I am that it’s a stupid solution to a bigger problem. It’s akin to, say, duct taping your exhaust pipe back on. Anyway, I seriously doubt that it will cost us 100 Trillion dollars to fall in line with the Kyoto protocol. That is what I like to call, high-per-bowl-eee. I also seriously doubt that the Kyoto agreement is the end all solution. I think it’s an inevitability that we’ll reduce the consumption of fossil fuels as the supply decreases. The most unbelievable thing is how it seems that sticking our collective heads in the sand about the repercussions is somehow expected and accepted. “Oh well, we’re on the road to hell as it is, we might as well sing a song to pass the time.” Why are the voices that are trying to honestly discuss a solution being squelched? This whole discussion reminds me a classic Dana Carvey impersonation: “The deficit [oil/global warming] is like some crazy aunt living down in the basement: everyone knows she’s there, but no one wants to talk about her. Now, if you don’t deal with her, she’s just going to get ornerier and stinkier. I say take the bitch upstairs, slap her around, and hose her down.”
-Dana Carvey as Ross Perot, Saturday Night Live

 
collapse Nobrainer Says:

I guess I’m not as inclined to talk about fixing the problem because I am yet unconvinced of the problem. Further, multiply my doubt by the uncertainty of the solution.

I would personally love to see our consumption decrease. At least our consumption of fossil fuels. But even when we have hydroelectric power, we’re forced to go out of our way for the native fish of the river. You can’t build windmills now because you’ll kill endangered birds. Hell, I bet that if we made major gains in solar power we’d be told that by using solar power we’re really only trapping solar energy on the planet, which prevents it from being reflected back into space.

Sadly, it may be true that the environmentalists are equally at fault for our reliance upon fossil fuels.

Perhaps the most difficult to interpret statistic is that the greatest temperature change in the last 100 years came in the first 50 years.

 
collapse Evan Says:

We’re splitting hairs over the definition of “problem.” There’s no disputing that the earth’s temperature trend is going upwards. There’s a considerable amount of thought, theory and evidence that points towards greenhouse gasses being the culprit. Imagine that we’re standing in a closed garage with a running car. And we’re looking at each other saying,

ME: “Yeah it’s getting a bit stuffy in here. What do ya think? Turn off the car?”
YOU: “Well, are we really sure it’s the car? I could have left the stove on. The air conditioner might be broken too.”
ME: “Nah, I think it’s probably the car. Let’s just turn it off while we’re not driving. Plus I think we could get carbon monoxide poisoning.”
YOU: “Hmmm… I’m just not really convinced, I mean the temperature’s only gone up a couple degrees and I can still breathe pretty well.”
ME: “Okay, well we can either let the car run until the fuel runs out and we likely die of carbon monoxide poisoning, or turn the car off manually, or create some sort of air filtration system, or evolve into coarbon monoxide breathing animals or open the garage door (ironically letting the greenhouse gases into the atmosphere).”

I think you see where this is going…

Unfortunately in the scenario described above you and I didn’t really have the luxury of mountains of scientific data to support one hypothesis or another. It’s a situation (ridiculous maybe) that requires some relatively quick decisions. Luckily this is NOT the type of “problem” we’re looking at with global warming. We can, up to a point, sit back and gather info and postulate and theorize. However, sooner rather than later I think it’s time to shit or get off the pot. That is to say, decide if there’s a “problem” we can do something about (which I think we can), enact a plan and execute the plan. All of this based on some solid science of course. However it also seems that this subject inparticular has been politicized–like stem cells. I guess some people just have a higher sense of urgency about this issue.

 
collapse Evan Says:

http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=143&art_id=vn20050220101822177C295789

Just randomly found this on news.google.com and though it apropos. I don’t care for their reluctance to sput any specifics, but I’ll stay tuned and investigate their methodology when it gets published.